RT @TheSuddenStop: One week left to enter our @PoetsOfTheFall 10th anniversary competition: http://t.co/F1kfGhgvR3 (3 Winners!) 24 minutes ago
-- Poets of the Fall on Twitter

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to | 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Author Message
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
The Digistore is now officially open!

http://www.poetsofthefall.com/digistore/

----


Hey forum people!

We are planning to open a new music store where you can download all POTF music as MP3s and lossless FLAC files (and no DRM whatsoever), and with slightly lower prices than iTunes and most other music shops. We are implementing the store together with Equal Dreams, who handle money transactions and other business logic.

We are now in the point where we'd like to hear your feedback, before officially opening the store. It's here:

http://www.poetsofthefall.com/digistore/

Everything is fully functional, so if you can spare an euro or two, try purchasing a song (or two). Singles & Specials are still missing, but we intend to get them online before the store goes public. And in case you don't have the CDs, here's your chance to get the songs in the full CD quality FLAC format! :)

A couple of notes and questions:

- One of the things we'll add soon is to make the cart icon include the text "Checkout" so that it's a little bit clearer.

- We are also working on a new POTF website which will leave much more room to the shop, but for now, we'll go with this layout.

- Our ultimate goal is to have just one shop for all POTF mechandise and music, but for now, we'll have the familiar shop.poetsofthefall.com for physical products, and this one for downloads

- The "Specials" category will eventually have live recordings and other things you won't find anywhere else :)

- Checkout is handled by Equal Dreams. Do you find it confusing that you are taken to their website to handle the transaction?

- Any information you'd like to see in the introduction/instruction text?

Any feedback is welcome! We have many ideas and functions we'll add to the shop in the future, but at this point, we just intend to get the a very basic (but functional) shop online.

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Quillfiend of a Swordmaster
User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 13:09
Posts: 1050
Location: Germany
Great idea. :D

Things I noticed after taking a brief look:

1. "MP3 and lossless FLAC for superior audio quality."

Many people do not know what FLAC is and that its quality is equal to the physical disc. Also most devices don't support FLAC so the files need to be converted to WAV. Simply link to a website like http://xrecode.com which offers a free audio-converter (people don't want to read through the Wikipedia-article of a file-format).

2. I'd like to see a sheet that allows me to look at the tracklist, length and filesize in MP3 and FLAC for each individual track as well as the whole album instantly right on the digistore-page. Each song in the tracklist should be linked to its audio-sample (Amazon-like). I also cannot see which format the songs will be having (MP3 or FLAC).


3. The equaldreams-website suffers from bad design. After picking an album and entering ED, I have to click on the album-title once again to see the tracklist. The "related music"-section should link to other Potf-stuff available there. Marketing-information should also be included for each album (Finnish-chart-no.1 etc).

4. I'd like to be able to download the booklet and covers after buying an album / single online so I can print them.


5. Regarding the new website: Is it possible to create automated massages in social networks ? (probably not but would be useful). I was thinking about scripts making the website interact with Facebook or Last.fm so new information (like tourdates) can be sent out to multiple websites instantly so lots of people can be reached quickly.


6. Would it be possible to somehow record their future live-performences and stream them to the website in MP3-format so people not fortunate enough to live in Finland can listen to the gig online ?

_________________
"Whereas terms such as 'culture' or 'multiculturalism' are popular, 'civilization' is being despised as it abandons cultural diversity in favor of civilized discipline." - Henryk Broder


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Bard and a Trickster
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 2010, 20:17
Posts: 138
Location: Italy
I agree with everything Nuhr said (though I must confess I have no idea nor knowledge re. the technicalities of MP3 or FLAC or any digital format.... I stuck with CDs whenever possible :oops:), but I second especially this part:
Quote:
Nuhr said: Would it be possible to somehow record their future live-performances and stream them to the website in MP3-format so people not fortunate enough to live in Finland can listen to the gig online ?

And I'd add: "...and once the live performance has been recorded, it's just a step away from making it available for all the fans who could then buy and download it from the online shop"!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
In the meantime, I can't wait to be able to download "The Beautiful Ones" ... but I'll wait anyhow :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
I Hear The Words They Will Not Speak
User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2007, 16:26
Posts: 4584
Location: On a sinking ship
I agree with nuhr on the 'Digital Booklet' but also liked the 'Special Stuff' idea.They'd really grab your attention! :)

_________________
You wanna see it's the day
You need to come on and play and just take a chance and celebrate


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Dream Illusionist
User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 16:44
Posts: 1802
Location: USA
Well the exchange rate for us in the USA makes buying from the Digistore more expensive. For example right now 01/08/2011:

Twilight Theater: 9.79E which is $12.51(52 round up) US

So iTunes is cheaper for me, but I have all the albums so far anyway. Now as far as putting "Speacials" in Digistore, I will pay the extra for live material and if there is anything else I can't get on iTunes or Best Buy or some other cd type place :) .

As far as the format and all, well I don't know much about those things.......although maybe I will familiarize myself with them at some point since they sound interesting.

_________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined.

~Thoreau


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Shakespeare's Worst Nightmare
User avatar

Joined: 03 May 2010, 02:21
Posts: 446
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia - Italy
Hehehe what a "delicious" news!
Actually, I'm not so..inured to such stuff..I'd prefer to buy POTF stuff in a "physical" shop...but it's quite difficult for me take a plane to Finland to do that, at this moment...So I'm becoming closer to this "web-shopping", just for The Guys.
For now, I'm able to tell you I'm very, very, very interested in the "Specials" category and, by the way, I hope "live recordings" could include some videos...(even if I know it's not a very simple thing for you..)
About your questions: (first one)I don't think checkout handled by Equal Dreams could be a problem, if it works in the same way of the others( and if it's me telling such thing...); (second one) YES!! All the informations could help me don't get lost "along the way of downloading"!!! :? :lol:

P.S.: DID I EVER SAY HOW MUCH I LOVE MY POETS???? :| :D :mrgreen:

_________________
With silence comes peace, with peace comes freedom, with freedom comes silence...


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Shakespeare's Worst Nightmare
User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2010, 16:40
Posts: 317
Location: Russia
So, they tend to digital distribution... Does itunes cut too much from sales? Sadly, this seems to totally cross out even the slightest possibility of reissuing older stuff on CD.
[i understand i'll get flamed for not praising "our holy cow" every time, but whatever]

_________________
"something has to change - undeniable dilemma
boredom's not a burden anyone should bear
constant over-stimulation numbs me
but i would not want you any other way"



Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
The Historian's Apprentice No More
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 23:04
Posts: 5110
Location: Germany
Here are my 2 cents, trying not to repeat what has already been said:

- I found the shopping quite easy, being taken to another site did not bother me. Yet I shop online a lot and I'm used to that.
- the one thing I did find confusing is that is says it is FÖAC and mp3 on the first page, but never again and after I had selected a track, I didn't know what it was. Once I had paid I saw I got a download link for both, but I would have been less confused had it been stated with the track itself, because I expected to make a choice before paying.
- less than that I think it looks fine

I like the idea a lot, for everyone who does want a cheaper alternative to buying the physical CDs. I personally prefer to have CDs on my shelf, but I know many people like buying downloads.

Reading taht you are planning to include live recordings made me very happy. It would be very cool to have a few more of those and maybe even a full concert in good quality?

_________________
"What I've got, I have earned. What I'm not I have learned!" (Bruce Springsteen)
"A night has many shades, it can last for many days and hurt in many ways ... "(Árstíðir)


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Shakespeare's Worst Nightmare
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2009, 17:14
Posts: 268
Location: In motion.
This is a great idea! At least for most of the people living in Europe; it's cheaper than iTunes AND it will have exclusive tracks soon! :mrgreen:

However, this doesn't work for me. :( I can't shop on iTunes because I need a valid US address and credit card for that (the store isn't available in my country) and I can't shop in this store either because you use Euros instead of Dollars; you see, I can't legally get Euros for online transactions where I live. :| ) I have to buy POTF albums when I travel to Europe, or pay twice the price on Amazon.

So, I'll support this as much as I can providing feedback with my limited knowledge because I really like the idea. But, what are the chances of making the store 'dollar friendly'? :P

_________________
And then, there was silence.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Jack-Smoking-Fingers-in-a-Box
User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2009, 00:44
Posts: 783
Location: Bulgaria
Tzofi!, isn't there any way to get/borrow a credit card? If you manage to do that, currencies won't be a problem, even if you have yens for example, as long as your have enough money - the bank will automatically convert it to euro for the transaction only.
But this could be an idea: support for a bank transfer.

_________________
"Artists and Poets are the raw nerve of humanity. By themselves they can do little to save humanity -- without them there would be little worth caring."
Jimmy Ernst


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Shakespeare's Worst Nightmare
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2009, 17:14
Posts: 268
Location: In motion.
@Arvigeus: That's easier said than done where I live, I'm afraid. :(

The government limits the amount of foreign currency we can legally get in my country. Dollars are already a big pain in the neck to get; I only have access (legally) to 400 dollars for internet shopping every YEAR. Euros are twice the trouble. I have a credit card, but I'd need a bunch of permits to even get my hands in a few Euros.

Unless you buy them in the 'black market' at twice the price (or more), you can't easily get Euros here, even if you have the money to pay for them. I've bought Euros and Dollars in the black market when I've had to but even if I did that again, I'd need to deposit them in an account abroad AND have a credict card abroad to do internet shopping in Euros. Big, big problem.

So... Just dollars for me. :|

Having said that, and sorry for the off-topic :oops: ... I think having a dollar friendly shop would be a great thing to do. I'm probably not the only one that has problems with getting Euros, so it would be much easier for people in several countries to legally get POTF music and merch.

PS. I'm not a mobster or anything. :P Black market pretty much means that you buy the currencies from other people that have them, for whatever price they give you.

_________________
And then, there was silence.


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
Thanks a lot for your feedback! :) Very good stuff, I'll try to answer all of you here:

nuhr wrote:
Many people do not know what FLAC is and that its quality is equal to the physical disc. Also most devices don't support FLAC so the files need to be converted to WAV. Simply link to a website like http://xrecode.com which offers a free audio-converter (people don't want to read through the Wikipedia-article of a file-format).

My reasoning for linking to the Wikipedia article was that it's a "neutral" page and contains all the information you need. Also, I think that people who don't know what FLAC is are probably more than happy with MP3. Hmm, how about this: I'll write a mini-FLAC-FAQ that very briefly explains what it is and how it works (generally & in our store), and links to the converter software as well as the Wikipedia article. And then point the FLAC link on the shop page to the FAQ. How's that sound?

nuhr wrote:
2. I'd like to see a sheet that allows me to look at the tracklist, length and filesize in MP3 and FLAC for each individual track as well as the whole album instantly right on the digistore-page. Each song in the tracklist should be linked to its audio-sample (Amazon-like).

The current rather narrow layout makes some things a little difficult at the moment. I guess you noticed that you get lots of extra info for each track if you just click the title, but it's true that at least the song length could be visible without any extra clicks. You can listen to a preview of each track, just click the play button on the left next to the song title (or what did you mean?).

nuhr wrote:
I also cannot see which format the songs will be having (MP3 or FLAC).

redbossfan wrote:
- the one thing I did find confusing is that is says it is FÖAC and mp3 on the first page, but never again and after I had selected a track, I didn't know what it was. Once I had paid I saw I got a download link for both, but I would have been less confused had it been stated with the track itself, because I expected to make a choice before paying.

All songs are always available as both MP3 and FLAC and you are entitled to download both with one purchase, but maybe this isn't as obvious as it could. Maybe it could be clarified in the mini-FAQ or intro text? Mentioning the exact same thing next to each song just clutters the layout.

nuhr wrote:
3. The equaldreams-website suffers from bad design. After picking an album and entering ED, I have to click on the album-title once again to see the tracklist. The "related music"-section should link to other Potf-stuff available there. Marketing-information should also be included for each album (Finnish-chart-no.1 etc).

When you enter equaldreams.com, you have already decided what you are going to buy and initiated the payment process, and I think everything should be kept as clear and minimal as possible from that point forward. If you buy all four albums for example, I guess you don't need to see a long webpage listing their contents once again - the album titles are probably enough.

I might be wrong, but my assumption is that the majority of people buying something from the Digistore will not be casual shoppers looking for some new music to buy (those people browse iTunes or other large net shops), but instead fans or to-be-fans who already more or less know what they want to buy. That's why I don't think we need to "sell" anything to them in the shop itself - better to keep it as simple as possible, and leave marketing to the rest of our website. What do you guys think?

Equal Dreams naturally want people to buy other music too from their shop, so it's in their best interests to show all kinds of "related music" to customers. And their POTF discography will be exactly the same as in our Digistore anyway.

nuhr wrote:
4. I'd like to be able to download the booklet and covers after buying an album / single online so I can print them.

Me too. :) We are working on that!

nuhr wrote:
5. Regarding the new website: Is it possible to create automated massages in social networks ? (probably not but would be useful). I was thinking about scripts making the website interact with Facebook or Last.fm so new information (like tourdates) can be sent out to multiple websites instantly so lots of people can be reached quickly.

I already made a Facebook application that shows Tour Dates in its own tab, but if you have any ideas, I'll be happy to look into them. Anything that can be coded I can code. :) On a general level, I like the idea that the website is as tightly integrated with Twitter and Facebook etc. as possible.

nuhr wrote:
6. Would it be possible to somehow record their future live-performences and stream them to the website in MP3-format so people not fortunate enough to live in Finland can listen to the gig online ?

Do you mean stream in realtime, or publish the gigs after the fact? Either way, it's lots of extra work (recording in multichannel format, mixing, etc), but techincally it's of course possible. The guys already have some gig recordings, and I hope we'll get some of those in the Digistore at some point.

Snow wrote:
Well the exchange rate for us in the USA makes buying from the Digistore more expensive.

Ah, that is a good point. Something we never even thought of, I think. :) I guess the only good solution is to check your billing address, and show you separate euro/dollar prices according to that. Hmm. I'll talk with Equal Dreams about that.

BenAkenobi wrote:
So, they tend to digital distribution... Does itunes cut too much from sales? Sadly, this seems to totally cross out even the slightest possibility of reissuing older stuff on CD.

It's a conspiracy! :o Heh, take it easy. The main reason for opening our own Digistore is that iTunes can be _really_ difficult to work with at times. Their shop works like a dream to the customers, but unfortunately there are all kinds of hassles behind the scenes. The biggest one is that it takes several weeks (or even months) to get a new song or album online after you have sent all the data to them. We'd like to have a shop where the guys can literally record something in the studio, and have it online the same day.

Also, with our own shop, we can be 100% sure everything is available all over the world. iTunes still isn't available in all countries. And with Equal Dreams, implementing completely new ideas and features according to our wishes is very much possible, unlike a giant like iTunes. We simply wish to have much more control and a more flexible shop with our own Digistore.

Tzofi! wrote:
However, this doesn't work for me. :( I can't shop on iTunes because I need a valid US address and credit card for that (the store isn't available in my country) and I can't shop in this store either because you use Euros instead of Dollars; you see, I can't legally get Euros for online transactions where I live. :| ) I have to buy POTF albums when I travel to Europe, or pay twice the price on Amazon.

Thanks, again a good point we simply didn't know. One more reason to implement dollars. I'm afraid it won't be easy and will take some time, but that's really up to Equal Dreams. I'll talk with them.

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
The Historian's Apprentice No More
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 23:04
Posts: 5110
Location: Germany
POTF_Admin wrote:
All songs are always available as both MP3 and FLAC and you are entitled to download both with one purchase, but maybe this isn't as obvious as it could. Maybe it could be clarified in the mini-FAQ or intro text? Mentioning the exact same thing next to each song just clutters the layout.


I think clarifying it in the intro text would do the trick. The text says "MP3 and lossless FLAC for superior audio quality" which suggests to me that both are available, but not that I will automatically get both. Might be just my understanding, but it might help to add something like "after buying you can choose to download either or both formats"

POTF_Admin wrote:
I might be wrong, but my assumption is that the majority of people buying something from the Digistore will not be casual shoppers looking for some new music to buy (those people browse iTunes or other large net shops), but instead fans or to-be-fans who already more or less know what they want to buy. That's why I don't think we need to "sell" anything to them in the shop itself - better to keep it as simple as possible, and leave marketing to the rest of our website. What do you guys think?


Makes sense to me

POTF_Admin wrote:
I already made a Facebook application that shows Tour Dates in its own tab, but if you have any ideas, I'll be happy to look into them. Anything that can be coded I can code. :) On a general level, I like the idea that the website is as tightly integrated with Twitter and Facebook etc. as possible.


Going a bit of topic here: For me personally the obstacle is not getting information about gigs once they are posted on the Website, but the fact that tourdates are often announced rather late, i.e. more often than not there will already be tickets on sale before a gig is even seen on the website. Since I would like to continue traveling to Finland for the gigs and this takes some planning time, it would be really nice if the gigs got posted sooner, but I suppose they are already posted as soon as the dates are fixed. I just sometimes get the feeling that you wait until all the tourdates are there before posting them. If this is not the case I apologize. I have really no clue how much work it takes to plan a tour and I certainly do not intend to offend anyone who is involved in that. Guess I will just have to be patient. Sorry for the off topic. :oops:

_________________
"What I've got, I have earned. What I'm not I have learned!" (Bruce Springsteen)
"A night has many shades, it can last for many days and hurt in many ways ... "(Árstíðir)


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Quillfiend of a Swordmaster
User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 13:09
Posts: 1050
Location: Germany
Quote:
My reasoning for linking to the Wikipedia article was that it's a "neutral" page and contains all the information you need. Also, I think that people who don't know what FLAC is are probably more than happy with MP3. Hmm, how about this: I'll write a mini-FLAC-FAQ that very briefly explains what it is and how it works (generally & in our store), and links to the converter software as well as the Wikipedia article. And then point the FLAC link on the shop page to the FAQ. How's that sound?


Sounds good. :P

Quote:
I might be wrong, but my assumption is that the majority of people buying something from the Digistore will not be casual shoppers looking for some new music to buy (those people browse iTunes or other large net shops), but instead fans or to-be-fans who already more or less know what they want to buy. That's why I don't think we need to "sell" anything to them in the shop itself - better to keep it as simple as possible, and leave marketing to the rest of our website. What do you guys think?


I disagree. When reading comments on their youtube-videos, I often find someone willing to buy their albums, but unable to find a place to buy them. Quite a lot of people do not realize that Google is capable of finding basically any information desired. Just type "POTF" into Google and the official website (and therefore webshop) will show up as the first result. I think that, in order to make more people buy their stuff, the act of buying needs to be as easy as possible simply because many people are too lazy to look things up even when doing so is rather easy.

Quote:
Do you mean stream in realtime, or publish the gigs after the fact? Either way, it's lots of extra work (recording in multichannel format, mixing, etc), but techincally it's of course possible. The guys already have some gig recordings, and I hope we'll get some of those in the Digistore at some point.


At first, I thought about real-time because I was thinking about those unable to come to the gigs. Given the additional work, I think you should record each gig, let the guys decide which ones they consider to be sounding really awesome and then offer them for download for a small fee (one that at least lets them gain a small revenue since money is always an issue, especially for them).


Quote:
I already made a Facebook application that shows Tour Dates in its own tab, but if you have any ideas, I'll be happy to look into them. Anything that can be coded I can code. :) On a general level, I like the idea that the website is as tightly integrated with Twitter and Facebook etc. as possible.


They have 150k followers on Facebook, 100k more on Last.fm so I was thinking about how to easily send out messages to those people. There are people who listen to their music or like them on Facebook, yet never check out their website etc. simply because they do not feel any need to do so. Try to reach out to these people. The rate at which they gain new likes in these networks grows faster and faster so this becomes more and more important.
For example, they nearly have as many Last.fm-listeners as Sunrise Ave (256k--->259k). The gap has been way bigger in the past but our guys are gaining between 200-300 new listeners (and around 10k played songs) each day. Around the time Revolution Roulette got released, they got between 100 and 130 new users each day so things are moving along nicely.

This might not be possible to do. I was thinking about some kind of script that checks the profiles of their social-network friends and allows you to send out a message to all or some of them quickly. Like: Poets playing a gig in Germany ---> every German Facebook-friend has a mail in his inbox with all information included (when, where, where to buy tickets etc.). The guys have their newsletter, but how many people is it being sent to ? besides, as I said, many Potf-likers probably don't regularly check the website because of whatever reason so they simply do not get the information (or get it to late ect.).

They have to be smarter than others simply because they have their own small label and finance themselves.

_________________
"Whereas terms such as 'culture' or 'multiculturalism' are popular, 'civilization' is being despised as it abandons cultural diversity in favor of civilized discipline." - Henryk Broder


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
The Historian's Apprentice No More
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 23:04
Posts: 5110
Location: Germany
nuhr wrote:
This might not be possible to do. I was thinking about some kind of script that checks the profiles of their social-network friends and allows you to send out a message to all or some of them quickly. Like: Poets playing a gig in Germany ---> every German Facebook-friend has a mail in his inbox with all information included (when, where, where to buy tickets etc.). The guys have their newsletter, but how many people is it being sent to ? besides, as I said, many Potf-likers probably don't regularly check the website because of whatever reason so they simply do not get the information (or get it to late ect.)


I must say this sounds like a really good idea - like the newsletter, just automated and more regularly. And if what nuhr suggests is too complicated, then maybe all toudates to everyone? Unless you think that would be too much spam. Would be a cool feature if doable, I think.

_________________
"What I've got, I have earned. What I'm not I have learned!" (Bruce Springsteen)
"A night has many shades, it can last for many days and hurt in many ways ... "(Árstíðir)


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
OK check out what happens when you now click the FLAC link. I also refined the introduction text a little. Any more ideas to make it better?

nuhr wrote:
I disagree. When reading comments on their youtube-videos, I often find someone willing to buy their albums, but unable to find a place to buy them. Quite a lot of people do not realize that Google is capable of finding basically any information desired. Just type "POTF" into Google and the official website (and therefore webshop) will show up as the first result. I think that, in order to make more people buy their stuff, the act of buying needs to be as easy as possible simply because many people are too lazy to look things up even when doing so is rather easy.

But if someone is using Google or whatever to try to find a place to buy our stuff, doesn't that by definition mean that he/she has already decided to buy something from us, and that the shop itself does not need to look like an advertisement? :) I wholeheartedly agree that the act of buying needs to be as easy as possible, and in my opinion the way to do that is to make the shop as simple as possible, without any extra stuff. Just show album names, covers, tracks, and a "Buy!"-button. In the future, we hope to "spread" the shop into the whole website, so that we'll have buy buttons in discography, newsarticles, wherever songs or albums are mentioned.

One other thing is that stuff like "#1 album in Finland" or "sold platinum in Finland" does not necessarily mean much on a global scale. Of course the words "number one" and "gold" and "platinum" always look good, but... I don't know. Maybe something like that could be mentioned in the album descriptions in the shop after all?

You guys have to remember that we are Finns, and marketing ourselves with hype words is something we simply can't do. :)

nuhr wrote:
At first, I thought about real-time because I was thinking about those unable to come to the gigs. Given the additional work, I think you should record each gig, let the guys decide which ones they consider to be sounding really awesome and then offer them for download for a small fee (one that at least lets them gain a small revenue since money is always an issue, especially for them).

Yeah, once the shop is up and running, it makes much more sense for them to go through the additional work, since they can get everything on sale in the shop very easily.

nuhr wrote:
This might not be possible to do. I was thinking about some kind of script that checks the profiles of their social-network friends and allows you to send out a message to all or some of them quickly. Like: Poets playing a gig in Germany ---> every German Facebook-friend has a mail in his inbox with all information included (when, where, where to buy tickets etc.). The guys have their newsletter, but how many people is it being sent to ? besides, as I said, many Potf-likers probably don't regularly check the website because of whatever reason so they simply do not get the information (or get it to late ect.).

I'd imagine that FB has some built-in feature to do that, but it's probably not free. I know that FB is and has been for some time the way to go, and probably paying some money for stuff like that wouldn't be a bad investment. In any case, just posting updates on the wall seems to work pretty well for now.

The newsletter has currently around 15,000 subscribers, but the truth is that traditional email newsletters just don't work very well nowadays. People change their addresses and forget to unsubscribe the old & change it to the new, too aggressive spam filters stop many newsletters before they reach their destination, and so on. I don't even remember when the guys wrote the last one, it's been a while. I actually thought it would be interesting to ask the subscribers if they still like receiving and reading the newsletters, or if it would be better to just put all resources on Twitter & FB updates.

nuhr wrote:
They have to be smarter than others simply because they have their own small label and finance themselves.

Now you sound like Competitive Dad from the Fast Show. :D

redbossfan wrote:
Since I would like to continue traveling to Finland for the gigs and this takes some planning time, it would be really nice if the gigs got posted sooner, but I suppose they are already posted as soon as the dates are fixed. I just sometimes get the feeling that you wait until all the tourdates are there before posting them. If this is not the case I apologize. I have really no clue how much work it takes to plan a tour and I certainly do not intend to offend anyone who is involved in that. Guess I will just have to be patient. Sorry for the off topic. :oops:

All this is really up to Live Nation more than me or the band. :) Of course announcing gigs as early as possible is in everyone's interests, but there are many factors that make things more complicated. It's true that sometimes we (and Live Nation) wait to have a bunch of confirmed dates before announcing then, and that is simply because it allows us to announce a "tour", which might make it to some music websites or TV entertainment news etc.

Sometimes a venue or some other party announces a gig before us, and of course that should not happen. But in those cases, the problem is usually the venue announcing the gig too early, not us announcing it too late. Often the contracts made with them state clearly when they are allowed publish information about the gig, but sometimes they just don't care, or accidentally publish the info too early. Not optimal, but crap happens. :)

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
The Historian's Apprentice No More
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 23:04
Posts: 5110
Location: Germany
For what it's worth: I am grateful to ticket selling websites pblishing dates earlier than LiveNation. Without that, I don't think I'd have made it to half as many gigs in Finland last summer, much less to Russia. Of course it sucks if a gig that was already announced (but never officially confirmed) then does not happen for some reason or other, but such is life and it's a risk I'm willing to take.

But back to topic:
The new intro text is much clearer now. Thank you Admin. :)

FLAC explanation looks good as well. It would be nice if you could link to a converter for Mac too - not everyone is a windows user ;) I use xact (http://xact.en.softonic.com/mac) but there might be other ones out there.

_________________
"What I've got, I have earned. What I'm not I have learned!" (Bruce Springsteen)
"A night has many shades, it can last for many days and hurt in many ways ... "(Árstíðir)


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
redbossfan wrote:
FLAC explanation looks good as well. It would be nice if you could link to a converter for Mac too - not everyone is a windows user ;) I use xact (http://xact.en.softonic.com/mac) but there might be other ones out there.

What... not everyone is a Windows user? What would you use then?

:D Thanks, added!

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Monger of Omens
User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2005, 05:42
Posts: 6208
Location: Old Europe | Germany
Some things that came to my mind while using it in loose order, hope I don't repeat anything.

- After clicking the "Buy" buttons, it should somehow indicate that something happened (the basket was updated etc.). Making the browser window shake or making the website background switch color between black and pink back and forth. :) Or maybe just changing the checkout/basket link to another more visible color after it's not empty anymore, or making the basket link fade in/fade out for a few seconds to attract attention to the shop's area which is supposed to be the next step the user should take. Maybe the basket area will be more prominent in the new layout anyways, but in the current layout it *could* be overseen at times by Lusers.

- Personally I think a click to toggle the track length is an unneccessary click/user interaction. I'd rather display the lengths right behind the track titles, just not bold, in brackets and maybe italic and a little darker font color to get the focus on the track titles still. From the song title's length it should fit into the column without breaking, I think. Clicking the song titles could instead start the preview (in addition to the play button), since this is actual way more important to turn an interested user into a buying one. But maybe that's just a personal preference.

- It's probably already planned for the new shop layout, but I'd certainly add payment methods badges right to the shop, not just on the 'Equal Dreams' site or in the introduction text "All common payment methods are accepted" (or you could link it like the FLAC description to show the concrete payment methods). Currently you have to go through a complete order process to see what actual payment methods it offers. Personally I'm a fan of PayPal, so that'd be a killer reason for me to buy stuff on your digital store instead of iTunes. I'm just too lazy to go through an almost complete order process to see if it offers PayPal.

Live recordings and other specials would be awesome indeed. I would buy the digital stock out right away. :)

So far. Great idea, and looking good so far! Can't wait what you guys will be offering there!


POTF_Admin wrote:
You guys have to remember that we are Finns, and marketing ourselves with hype words is something we simply can't do. :)

Why not threaten the user instead like "Buy our (finnish) music or your next mobile WON'T be Nokia!"? :D

_________________
Image

POTFwall___POTFmedia___POTFquiz___POTFbar


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
Alphawolf wrote:
- After clicking the "Buy" buttons, it should somehow indicate that something happened (the basket was updated etc.).

Hm, but the buy/download button does change into a "Added to basket, checkout here" -text after clicking it, plus the basket icon updates to show the current total value. That's kind of hard to miss, or maybe I didn't understand what you meant? :)

Alphawolf wrote:
- Personally I think a click to toggle the track length is an unneccessary click/user interaction. I'd rather display the lengths right behind the track titles, just not bold, in brackets and maybe italic and a little darker font color to get the focus on the track titles still.

Yep, I noticed the same thing, and asked Equal Dreams to change that. There was originally more information about the song in the info-popup, but most of that is really not relevant for this embedded shop (performer, composer, publisher, etc). So we removed everything unnecessary, and after that noticed that the only thing left is the song length, and there's really no point in hiding it after a mouse click. :) So that should be fixed soon.

Alphawolf wrote:
- It's probably already planned for the new shop layout, but I'd certainly add payment methods badges right to the shop, not just on the 'Equal Dreams' site or in the introduction text "All common payment methods are accepted". Currently you have to go through a complete order process to see what actual payment methods it offers. Personally I'm a fan of PayPal, so that'd be a killer reason for me to buy stuff on your digital store instead of iTunes. I'm just too lazy to go through an almost complete order process to see if it offers PayPal.

You may be right. How about if the intro text includes a link to ED's FAQ which lists the payment options:

http://en.equaldreams.com/ed/help/faq.html#faq29

I'll also see if I could include small badges/icons in the layout without making it too cluttered.

Alphawolf wrote:
Why not threaten the user instead like "Buy our (finnish) music or your next mobile WON'T be Nokia!"? :D

Heh, might be worth trying. :)

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Monger of Omens
User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2005, 05:42
Posts: 6208
Location: Old Europe | Germany
POTF_Admin wrote:
Hm, but the buy/download button does change into a "Added to basket, checkout here" -text after clicking it, plus the basket icon updates to show the current total value. That's kind of hard to miss, or maybe I didn't understand what you meant? :)

I blame... coffee (already was about to also ask why the whole shop is rainbow-colour-schemed, but that impression might be caused by coffee-overdose too). Well, I noticed the buttons change to these links after clicking, but I already had forgotten while writing my post (had tested it yesterday already, but couldn't reply). *MiB flashy-things Admin*


POTF_Admin wrote:
You may be right. How about if the intro text includes a link to ED's FAQ which lists the payment options:

http://en.equaldreams.com/ed/help/faq.html#faq29

That would work, too, thanks. :) In fact though, pictures say more than a hundret words, and seeing a PayPal badge on a shop is something I consider "trustworthy" (well, it's one of many things for me). But then again, that could be just a personal thing. Hiding the payment methods in the FAQ is quite suboptimal IMHO. When I do online-shopping, I'm most likely not willing to consult and search through any FAQ, especially if it's sth. basic like payment in a digishop.
If I'd live in a country that doesn't accept any of the shop's payment methods, I'd like to spare the "hassle" to go through an order process only to find out it was for nothing because it doesn't let me pay for what I was eagerly adding to my basket. That person would probably be pissed and not come back ever. And we all want returning shop customers, don't we? ^^

_________________
Image

POTFwall___POTFmedia___POTFquiz___POTFbar


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Herald in Our Midst

Joined: 27 Mar 2010, 11:55
Posts: 6
How are the FLAC files on store produced
Are they encoded from original source or are they ripped from CD?
If they're from CD then what was the method used? Because without proper ripping process they're not lossless.


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
Sude wrote:
How are the FLAC files on store produced
Are they encoded from original source or are they ripped from CD?
If they're from CD then what was the method used? Because without proper ripping process they're not lossless.

What do you mean with "proper ripping process"? In any case, the FLACs are made from the original studio masters, which of course are the exact same files used to make the CDs.

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Herald in Our Midst

Joined: 27 Mar 2010, 11:55
Posts: 6
POTF_Admin wrote:
What do you mean with "proper ripping process"? In any case, the FLACs are made from the original studio masters, which of course are the exact same files used to make the CDs.

That's good to know :)

With proper ripping process I mean that when ripping from CD you need to take into account some things about the drive you're using for ripping. Every drive/model has different read offset which needs to be corrected to read the audio data from CD in 1:1 mode. Without corrected offset you start reading too early or too late --> copy isn't identical to source
If drive caches audio (most drives do) you have to work around it by flushing the cache to be able do real checksum calculation of 2 concurrent read attempts. Otherwise the second is taken from cache and any read error that might have happened isn't detected. You need at least 2 reads with checksum validation to make sure it was read correctly. Also null samples must be used for checksum calculation.

If using EAC this means
secure mode, read offset correction, gap detection + append to previous track, normalization turned off, defeat CD/DVD drive audio cache (if drive caches audio), use null samples, don't delete leading or trailing silent blocks, AccurateRip enabled (for comparing against checksums of other AccurateRip users)


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Jack-Smoking-Fingers-in-a-Box
User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2009, 00:44
Posts: 783
Location: Bulgaria
1) Music section now looks kinda useless. Either it should be replaced to link to digistore, or just removed. We could hear demos from digistore, and for far more songs than in the samples

2) The information bellow should contain link to lyrics

3) Maybe you should directly merge Music, Lyrics and Digistore into one place. This could make navigation a bit easier, dunno. The link should lead to digistore section in the webshop.

4) Tour dates should too include link to digistore if there is a song recorded there for sale.

5) Are you going to sell videos? (Offtopic: you should include lyrics as closed caption in videos)

6) Are you going to sell radio-only promo singles?

7) (Offtopic) News should be bellow Home, not at the bottom. FAQ should be at the bottom.

8) Webstore should include email/rss notification for new items added.

_________________
"Artists and Poets are the raw nerve of humanity. By themselves they can do little to save humanity -- without them there would be little worth caring."
Jimmy Ernst


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Confidante of the Kindred
User avatar

Joined: 08 Aug 2008, 18:06
Posts: 3533
Location: Tuscany, Italy
Sorry to disagree with you, but:
- I don't think the Music section is useless. That's an area where you directly hear samples. It'll probably have a link to the Digistore, as now it has to the Webshop, but I really don't think it's useless.
- videos need close captions? :shock:

while I think the notification for new items would be a good idea :)


And about the Digistore: the "special" session sounds extremely interesting, can't wait to find something there!

_________________
Completely rapt with what I hear ♥
No need to hide away your life
unique, yet so alike.

Image
Controlfreakism: the Poets of the Fall way of doing it. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
Sude wrote:
With proper ripping process I mean that when ripping from CD you need to take into account some things about the drive you're using for ripping. Every drive/model has different read offset which needs to be corrected to read the audio data from CD in 1:1 mode. Without corrected offset you start reading too early or too late --> copy isn't identical to source
If drive caches audio (most drives do) you have to work around it by flushing the cache to be able do real checksum calculation of 2 concurrent read attempts. Otherwise the second is taken from cache and any read error that might have happened isn't detected. You need at least 2 reads with checksum validation to make sure it was read correctly. Also null samples must be used for checksum calculation.

I was under the impression that most modern CD-ROM drives & ripping programs take care of that stuff, and the last time we needed to worry about such things was somewhere in the 90's.... but of course that's not real knowledge, just my gut feeling. :) But yeah, the versions in the shop have never been on CD, so they are as close as you can get to the "originals".

Arvigeus wrote:
1) Music section now looks kinda useless. Either it should be replaced to link to digistore, or just removed. We could hear demos from digistore, and for far more songs than in the samples
3) Maybe you should directly merge Music, Lyrics and Digistore into one place. This could make navigation a bit easier, dunno. The link should lead to digistore section in the webshop.
4) Tour dates should too include link to digistore if there is a song recorded there for sale.

Yeah, those are good points. Like I mentioned, the long-term plan is to integrate the shop into all areas of the website, so that you can buy stuff without even realizing you walked into a shop at some point. :) The layout of the shop itself comes from Equal Dreams and it's not 100% customizable, and it's probably good to have at least lyrics in its own section, but what we can and will do is to link to the shop from the lyrics page of each song, and so on.

Arvigeus wrote:
5) Are you going to sell videos? (Offtopic: you should include lyrics as closed caption in videos)

Equal Dreams' system supports videos too, so it's certainly possible we'll sell videos too in the hopefully not too distant future.

Arvigeus wrote:
6) Are you going to sell radio-only promo singles?

Those are usually the exact same songs you find on CDs, maybe a little shorter. And often the cuts aren't that pretty. I can't imagine who'd like to listen to those (except some sick perverts and radio listeners, apparently).

Arvigeus wrote:
7) (Offtopic) News should be bellow Home, not at the bottom. FAQ should be at the bottom.

The reasoning behind having News at the bottom is that you can always see latest news on every page, but I agree it is kinda in the wrong place there. And FAQ should be the very first link, everywhere, on every website, if you ask me. :) But we'll see what happens with our new website.

Arvigeus wrote:
8) Webstore should include email/rss notification for new items added.

Hmm, why not. But we'll probably use our other channels too for announcing new stuff (news, facebook, Twitter, etc), so I don't know if the shop needs its own.

Anyway, good feedback, thanks!

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
Jack-Smoking-Fingers-in-a-Box
User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2009, 00:44
Posts: 783
Location: Bulgaria
Lisa wrote:
- videos need close captions? :shock:

Unfortunately, YouTube does not support subtitles (yet) and this is the only way to see the lyrics while watching the video.

POTF_Admin wrote:
Arvigeus wrote:
6) Are you going to sell radio-only promo singles?

Those are usually the exact same songs you find on CDs, maybe a little shorter. And often the cuts aren't that pretty. I can't imagine who'd like to listen to those (except some sick perverts and radio listeners, apparently).

Actually, there are :) And I believe it's not only me. Especially if you include covers. But if this (putting them for sale) causes extra costs for the band, then I agree with you - it's not worth it.

POTF_Admin wrote:
Arvigeus wrote:
7) (Offtopic) News should be bellow Home, not at the bottom. FAQ should be at the bottom.

FAQ should be the very first link, everywhere, on every website, if you ask me. :) But we'll see what happens with our new website.

I disagree with that. Putting on top of other menus is like labeling it "Morons, walk here". Top items should be the most important stuff, not explanations. And at this time it's kinda placed nowhere - between the menus. Putting it on top makes sense only if there are no other important menus. The reason to put it in the end is because most users usually check only the first and the last menu entries. So looking up they should see information about the band and their music, looking down they should see contact & faq. I know it's kinda pointless debate, cause design stuff could be interpreted in many ways, so count this as 'IMHO'.

POTF_Admin wrote:
Arvigeus wrote:
8) Webstore should include email/rss notification for new items added.

Hmm, why not. But we'll probably use our other channels too for announcing new stuff (news, facebook, Twitter, etc), so I don't know if the shop needs its own.

Well, not every fan follows you on twitter/facebook, and sometimes these updates could be buried under tons of friends' updates about how bored they are or their new high score at FarmVille. This is an extra option, a better chance for non-hardcore fans to follow what's new. Again 'IMHO'.

Small things matter...

_________________
"Artists and Poets are the raw nerve of humanity. By themselves they can do little to save humanity -- without them there would be little worth caring."
Jimmy Ernst


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
A Monger of Omens
User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2005, 05:42
Posts: 6208
Location: Old Europe | Germany
POTF_Admin wrote:
I can't imagine who'd like to listen to those (except some sick perverts and radio listeners, apparently).

Well, I do know some people who love to have every single piece of PotF stuff, which includes radio promo singles ofc (but these ppl are numbered among these sick perverts that you mentioned :roll: :P).

_________________
Image

POTFwall___POTFmedia___POTFquiz___POTFbar


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
The Overseer
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 10:28
Posts: 2121
Location: The Universe
Arvigeus wrote:
Unfortunately, YouTube does not support subtitles (yet) and this is the only way to see the lyrics while watching the video.

How about opening lyrics in another browser window while watching a video? :) OK, I agree, this would be a cool feature, but for now it will be labeled under "nice but not absolutely necessary - will be done when some extra time".

Arvigeus wrote:
Actually, there are :) And I believe it's not only me. Especially if you include covers. But if this (putting them for sale) causes extra costs for the band, then I agree with you - it's not worth it.

Putting stuff on sale does not cost anything to the band, so that's not an issue. But with most radio versions, the band simply does not want people to listen to them, because they are not what the guys intended the songs to be. I think the "collector value" exists only with physical items, not downloadable songs that don't even have covers at this point. But as usual, we'll see... :)

Arvigeus wrote:
I disagree with that. Putting on top of other menus is like labeling it "Morons, walk here". Top items should be the most important stuff, not explanations. And at this time it's kinda placed nowhere - between the menus. Putting it on top makes sense only if there are no other important menus. The reason to put it in the end is because most users usually check only the first and the last menu entries. So looking up they should see information about the band and their music, looking down they should see contact & faq. I know it's kinda pointless debate, cause design stuff could be interpreted in many ways, so count this as 'IMHO'.

Yeah, you have some valid points. Will be considered. :)

Arvigeus wrote:
Well, not every fan follows you on twitter/facebook, and sometimes these updates could be buried under tons of friends' updates about how bored they are or their new high score at FarmVille. This is an extra option, a better chance for non-hardcore fans to follow what's new. Again 'IMHO'.

Most fans are nowadays in Facebook, so that's the most important place for announcements, like it or not. :) Anyway, our regular news have plenty of room for shop updates too (5 newsarticles in the last 6 months), and there's an RSS feed, so that probably works just fine for now. But again, we'll see....

_________________
The POTF Admin


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to | 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently 19 May 2013, 13:18 | All times are UTC + 2 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group